War in Iran

[chirpy cockney]

So it looks highly likely the Americans/Israelis will go war with Iran. Any ideas what Iran has done to deserve being attacked and any predictions as to the outcome?

[dialect]

Apart from thier horrific human rights record, they appear to be have been stock piling enriched uranium to make weapons grade plutonium.

[chirpy cockney]

But what I don't understand is many other countries - Syria springs to mind and I'm not sure how well Israel itself does in this respect - have horrific human rights records and we/America have not gone to war with them. Well I gues I do understand as many do not have resources that we need but isn't that all a bit obvious - if that is the case why don't the Americans just say they need the resources? In relation to nuclear weapons doesn't America have them? Again I think they do, as does Israel - so it really ok for some countries to have them and for others not to. I know these are pretty basic questions but I can't help but wonder at the sheer hypocrisy of it all. Or do I put up with that and hope that we are on the winning side - indeed do I hope that there is a winning side and that me and my family are on that side? What will be the outcome of such a war??

[dialect]

Agree its hipocracy but I think America is a far more stable country than Iran.
Would you let a psychopath loose with a gun just because the police have them?

[chirpy cockney]

Good question, no I wouldn't but is he really psychopath - define psychopath - has he been causing any particular trouble? Yes there are the human rights abuses but many others with nuclear weapons are doing the same and do seem further along the continuum of psychopathological-ness! - North Korea, Pakistan?

What seems clear is that the non-proliferation treaty is not working - and how did anyone think it would? Who appointed America and Israel as guardians of who should and who should not have nuclear weapons? Who appointed us, France and whoever else was involved? It's like trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle - surely once the know how existed it was just a matter of time before everyone started to get in on the act of producing nuclear weapons.

I used to support CND but now think it was just wishful thinking on my part. Realisitcally what can be done? Where will it end??

[Albion102]

I have no doubt that the fact it is an election year in the USA has a bearing. Especially when the incumbent president is regarded as a bit liberal and wanting to prove that despite having Hussain as his middle name, he suffers from the the same Islamophobia as the rest of the US.

In some ways a war against Iran might be a better outcome than a republican victory. I do not like the idea of the largest bully on the block being run by religious fanatics.

[delzx7r]

It is only a matter of time before some militant islamist obtains a nuclear device. When this happens say hello to world war three. The Iranians are enriching Plutonium and have weapons grade material. Plus the "President" is killing his own people.
Lets face it...
America is the only country capable of stopping the slaughter.
Rather than have a go at them ask yourself why the Russians and the Chinese don't seem to be too interested... China...the worlds most altruistic nation...not.

[semah]

So it looks highly likely the Americans/Israelis will go war with Iran. Any ideas what Iran has done to deserve being attacked and any predictions as to the outcome?

I don't think that the statement coming out of Iran that they 'were going to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' helps their position!

[chirpy cockney]

But Del - America hasn't stopped the slaughter in Iraq or Afghanistan. I assume Russia and China are saying nothing as they don't want America to rule the middle east and Albion's point re the very real possibility of religious fanatics being elected in America does bring to the fore the question of which are your prefered religious nutters? Which ones are better to have in total control??

Semah, you are right, saying that isn't terribly constructive now is it!

[delzx7r]

Russia and China effectively blocked efforts to curtail this situation when they vetoed the last UN resolution condeming the Iranian military action. That's not doing nothing is it?

[silver fox]

Iran certainly wishes to be the boss on the block, most certainly is antagonistic to others, has stated it's wishes to obliterate Israel, clearly has plans to control the flow of oil in the region.

All in all not exactly your fair and democratic nation, but I fear that for America and/or Israel to attack Iran could very well be counter productive, it could just be the catalyst to unite other Arab nations against Israel and then the entire area could get very messy indeed.

I certainly don't like the idea of nuclear weapons in the hands of extremists, but as already mentioned some of the Republican Presidential candidates in America don't look like the sort of people to be trusted with sharp implements let alone nuclear weapons.

[Albion102]

SF - I dont think that Iranians are arabs. To use un-PC but linguistically correct terms the Iranians are Aryans (like most of us) and the arabs are semites.

[chirpy cockney]

Del what military action have Iran been involved in recently? The last one I'm aware of was the Iran-Iraq war which was long before Ahmadinejad came to power.

In relation to the point about Arab (for the most part!) nations wanting to deny Israel's right to exist this has been going on since Israel was created - so why is it a factor in rationalising warmongering now?

[*concerned*]

Del what military action have Iran been involved in recently? The last one I'm aware of was the Iran-Iraq war which was long before Ahmadinejad came to power.

Chirpy - methinks Del has mixed up Syria with Iran in his haste to post his reply ?

[Stupot]

[QUOTE=chirpy cockney;2324991- Syria springs to mind and I'm not sure how well Israel itself does in this respect - have horrific human rights records [/QUOTE]

Many Palestinians live and work in Israel. Some years ago a Palestinian suicide bomber killed a number of people and injured others. Despite that, Israel still maintained its financial support of his wife and family afterwards.

As for Afghanistan, the Russians fought a long war there and finally conceded it was one they would never win. Just as others have since...

In the case of Iran, the car bombing earlier this week in India was blamed on Iranian terrorists by both Israel and India, despite the latter's growing economic ties with Iran.

Both the US and Israel have hugely efficient intelligence services and their views with regard to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his country's motives will be based on very substantial evidence.

[chirpy cockney]

Yes, I'm sure he's not the most well intentioned person around but it does seem hard to work out who are the baddies and who are the goodies. Seems like one person's oppressor is another person's resonable and rational kinda guy. But it seems like you really can't stuff the genie back in the bottle and the ending don't look good for anyone!

[Stupot]

Yes, I'm sure he's not the most well intentioned person around but it does seem hard to work out who are the baddies and who are the goodies. Seems like one person's oppressor is another person's resonable and rational kinda guy. But it seems like you really can't stuff the genie back in the bottle and the ending don't look good for anyone!

There's an old saying that "One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist"....

[chirpy cockney]

My son just showed me this in the Guardian mag which does seem to sum up the American perspective rather nicely:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...world--001.jpg

[Peter the Pig]

Wasn't there a quote attributed to Iran that they wanted to blow Israel off the face of the earth? If this was attempted/succeeded the whole of the Middle East would erupt into all-out warm thereby putting oil supplies to the rest of the world at extreme risk and knowing America's love of oil they would almost certainly lead the way in putting a stop to Iran's posturing irrespective of the rest of the world's opinions.

[seivad]

I have no doubt that the fact it is an election year in the USA has a bearing. Especially when the incumbent president is regarded as a bit liberal and wanting to prove that despite having Hussain as his middle name, he suffers from the the same Islamophobia as the rest of the US.

I’m sure it does have a bearing, but not for the above reasons. I don’t think he wants a military conflict with Iran, but in order to maintain the support of the Democrats who do support Israel, he has also has to be seen as backing Israel. I think he’ll do everything he can to keep it as a war with words.

I should add that the majority of Democrats are against the use of military force to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons, unlike conservative Republicans. The majority of liberal and moderate Republicans are also against military intervention. Obama doesn’t stand a chance at getting any conservative Republican to switch parties, but he could sway liberals and moderates to change.

[seivad]

But what I don't understand is many other countries - Syria springs to mind and I'm not sure how well Israel itself does in this respect - have horrific human rights records and we/America have not gone to war with them. Well I gues I do understand as many do not have resources that we need but isn't that all a bit obvious - if that is the case why don't the Americans just say they need the resources?

I don't think they do need them. Look below at where the US gets their oil from.

I assume Russia and China are saying nothing as they don't want America to rule the middle east

I don't know about Russia, but 22% of Iranian oil is exported to China. One damned good reason for China to keep quiet!

[MICK/GILLY]

I don't think that the statement coming out of Iran that they 'were going to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' helps their position!

I think the moment this statement was issued the rest of the world realised the true intention, sounds like a pretty clear statement of intent to me.

[chirpy cockney]

Ah, right, thanks for that Sev, so it must be the nuclear threat that is spooking them plus as I think Peter the Pig says the general threat to 'stability' in the middle east?

[Stupot]

I think the moment this statement was issued the rest of the world realised the true intention, sounds like a pretty clear statement of intent to me.

Original story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran

Later analysis viewpoints:

http://tinyurl.com/8793fvv

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...7offthemap.htm

http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/new...f-the-century/

In the interests of fairness I must point out...

[delzx7r]

I think that Syria and Iran are closely linked militarily...Syria is using Russian built main battle tanks in its assault against the rebel enclave in Homs..I firmly belive that Iran is supporting this effort by providing necessary spares and equipment so in that way Iran is undoubtedly ( in my mind ) linked to a current military conflict...
Iran is a danger to not only peace in the Middle East but to the stability of the entire world! They harbour Islamist Fundamentalists, supply equipment to any radical group to asks for it ( See IRA records ) and above all of this their government is genocidal!
I think America has stepped back from this conflict as Obama appears to be heartily sick and tired of his country being labelled as war-mongers as soon as they show interest in any conflict!
China has vested interests in the Middle East as they see it as a place where they can develop their market strategy and add to their growing super-economy and they would be well peeved if someone went in there and put a spanner in their works by removing the current government and replacing it with a less militant unit who were open to peacefull negotiation and trade with both East AND West.
Assuming Iran doesn't currently possess a nuclear weapon capability then it must be certain that in the very near future it will aquire one! Once this happens then the world would be on a coutdown to Armageddon. Even if the Iranians themselves have no intention of using such a weapon there are plenty of hard-line Jihadists out there who are more than willing to remove Jerusalem, London and Washington from the face of the planet and will sieze the first opportunity to do so!
People accuse Israel of being hard-line, or of having a poor record on human rights but really, a nation who saw 6.000.000 of its people anihilated are bound to be unaverse to using whatever means they have at their disposal to discourage any further attempts at wiping them out and I think it is to their credit that they have so far refrained from dumping a couple of kilotons on their surrounding aggressors!
However one looks at it, the current situation is extremely volatile and I only hope that the politicians manage to come to some understanding on how to defuse it before hundreds of thousands of innocent folk are wiped out to satisfy the needs of the Islamic Terror organisations!

[shippy]

Unfortunately the situation in the Middle East is not improving and I doubt very much that it ever will. At this time there are over 200,000 enemy rockets facing towards the tiny State of Israel, waiting to annihilate its inhabitants, be they Jew or Muslim..

Lastnight,press TV reports the arrival of two Iranian warships at the Syrian city of Tartous; crossing of the Suez Canal is the second in a year by Iranian warships.
These Iranian ships are there to back Assad and to intimidate the rebel fighters, by showing that Iran is backing Syria.
The people and fighters in HOMS, Syria are looking for a democratic leader, they want freedom of speech. The Syrian civilians are getting slaughtered on a daily basis, and the world, including many Arab States are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing. Where is the UN????
It was exposed last week that Assad used Chemical warfare on his own people.

What is beyond me, is that people in the West don't realize the consequences of the psychotic egomaniac leader President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad having Nuclear weapons...He will drag the world into a horrific world war 3.
Its a case who hits the red button first.

Israel has never used the nuclear weapons (which is alleged they possess ) or threatened any State in that area with the use of nuclear bombs. The weapons they have have always been used as a deterrent.
The Israeli nuclear weapons would be used to defend the lives of its civilians, (that's if it became known that Nuclear weapons were being pointed in their direction and likely to be used).

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at The University of Columbia USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9NwRUql8jM
What an idiot and ruler..

The biggest Military mistake the West made was invading Iraq and bringing that country to its knees. It is going to be a piece of cake for Iran to take over Iraq and the rich oil fields there. Iraq is now being run by the Shi-ites, as is Iran...The writing is on the wall..God help the world if this lunatic is not stopped..

There is a lot of tension and worry in Israel, of course for families, the sick and elderly who have to rely on their leaders decision at this stage. Its civilians understand fully the position that has come about.The present dilemma that the Israeli Government has is something that has become a very serious reality.
Israel is a divided country politically, but in this instance most people realize that "jaw jaw" is not going to help anymore...Especially knowing they are dealing with Muslim Extremists, who just want to start by annihilating Israel as the first step to ruling the world..

If a more stable Government were to take place in Iran then maybe there would be a chance of Peace, but the way things are looking now, in the Muslim world its all a power struggle...Its happening in Egypt with the army verses the Muslim Brotherhood, (another group of Islamic extremists funded by Iran) who are likely to take over running of Egypt and will break the peace agreement with Israel, which was made in the early 80s and stood well...
Saudi Arabia and the majority of gulf states are shaking in their shoes that Iran possibly has nukes...They will be the next target and they know it..

CC, can you, in your wisdom tell me what Israel has done to Iran to deserve these threats?

[chirpy cockney]

Shippy, I don't know what anyone has done to deserve any threats - well what anyone has done that is less than what someone else has done/threatend.

You say there are all these rockets facing Israel - so why have they never been fired? Del finishes his post by saying he only hopes 'that the politicians manage to come to some understanding on how to defuse it before hundreds of thousands of innocent folk are wiped out to satisfy the needs of the Islamic Terror organisations!'. Yes I agree but I also hope innocent folk aren't wiped out to satisfy American or Israelie needs!

[shippy]

Shippy, I don't know what anyone has done to deserve any threats - well what anyone has done that is less than what someone else has done/threatend.

You say there are all these rockets facing Israel - so why have they never been fired? Del finishes his post by saying he only hopes 'that the politicians manage to come to some understanding on how to defuse it before hundreds of thousands of innocent folk are wiped out to satisfy the needs of the Islamic Terror organisations!'. Yes I agree but I also hope innocent folk aren't wiped out to satisfy American or Israelie needs!

Those rockets haven't been fired yet, as Israel hasn't put Iran out of Nuclear action, the threat is there, and people have to live under that threat daily... The moment Israel or any Western country makes a move towards Iran then all hell will be let loose....The fallout from nuclear bombs will travel everywhere...

CC, the lose of innocent life will be mind boggling, this is not a child's game, of whom will be the winner, it's for real...There are no winners in this particular game, so many innocent lives will be lost on both sides... Israel, the US, Britain, France etc, are not threatening with idol words...Its a very serious situation, one which every country which believes in freedom should sit up and try to stop the madness before it's too late...

[chirpy cockney]

Yes Shippy, I know it is not child's play. I know it is very serious and worrying situation.

[Styx]

the lose of innocent life will be mind boggling, this is not a child's game, of whom will be the winner, it's for real...There are no winners in this particular game, so many innocent lives will be lost on both sides... Israel, the US, Britain, France etc, are not threatening with idol words...Its a very serious situation, one which every country which believes in freedom should sit up and try to stop the madness before it's too late...

Exactly!

Let us all hope that this nightmare scenario never comes to be.


http://www.rense.com/general83/irwar.htm



Iran is clearly out of control, and must be stopped, and stopped now.